Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

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Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Foufounes on Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:39 am

Been playing around with:

http://www.femaledwarf.com/
and
http://www.maxdps.com/hunter/survival.php

I was concerned that the difference between the two horde pve races for hunters was very significant, but now I'm not so convinced..

Orcs get blood fury (2m cd, ap increase), +5% pet damage, but slightly lower agility (178).
Trolls get berserking (3m cd, haste increase), +1% crit to bows and slightly higher agility (183).

My first instinct tells me I should be focusing on crit to make a troll compete with an orc (possibly even taking level 450 skinning into account), but of course I could be wrong. Anything I'm really missing?

It's not too late to reroll to an orc if it's going to be a significant difference in dps, so I'd rather know this now than fail at the dummy and waste Gevlon's time and resources!

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Newtron on Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:10 am

The 'top dps' numbers, with BiS gear is showing Orc is best for beast mastery (of course) as well as Marksman and Survival http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t42519-best_possible_dps_shandaras_wotlk_spreadsheet/ you could use the same spreadsheet to simulate other gear combinations . If you're 'focusing on crit' for a troll, what would you do differently gear wise for the orc? The orc and troll racials are additive, not multiplicative. Relative 'value' of a stat might change with gear level, but none of these stats are capped (like hit or expertise), so I don't see why you would gear differently based on these racials.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Foufounes on Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:46 am

When I say this is my first hunter, it means seriously that I don't have a clue about them apart from the basics which can be read on wikis and ej. I'm coming from a TBC raiding feral druid perspective, where for tanking I'd stack strength over agility and reverse this for when I was supposed to be doing cat dps. I also raided with a mage up to Sunwell where I specced between fire and arcane builds constantly depending on gear upgrades to maximise dps.

Troll racials suggest to me that in theory you could get higher crit and haste than an orc could ever dream of. On the other hand, the troll isn't going to get more ap or basic damage (if their pet is alive*) than the orc. The main difference seems to be the different cooldown.

*Is this still a problem? I remember hunter/warlock pets being one shotted by bosses in TBC if they didn't call their pet back to their side at certain times. This lowered their dps of course, but obviously not as much as a dead pet would have. Keep in mind we'll be in rares.

Of course, I could take your post at face value and assume there's no need to gear different hunters differently and just roll an orc, taking the ej stat priority list as given.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Grimditch on Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:42 pm

There would seem to be only a very small difference but I would say that unless you expect to go BM for raiding that Troll has a slight edge.
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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Gevlon on Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:20 pm

I think the difference between troll and orc will be minimal. If you want to know how much it is, use rawr.

However I'd like to note that there are 4 ilvl 200 blue ranged PvE weapons in the game, half of them are guns. The only available from reputation is a gun too. So trolls must farm harder to get a weapon (racial doesn't work with bow).

Both orc and troll are much better than BE or tauren.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Ballisto on Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:01 pm

Never, never, EVER use Rawr.Hunter.

Well, at least until they fix it.

Its pet damage calculation is currently way off the mark... or, dare I say, over the mark. Evil or Very Mad In my best-in-slot blue profile, it calculated me a shiny 9,142 DPS with full raidbuffs, that broke down to 3,020 from the hunter and 6,122 from the pet!

Now, even an optimist like myself would find that quite unbelieveable. I checked out and found that it gives an abnormally high Pet DPS rating to some slots, namely Back, Wrists, Hands, Feet, Fingers, Trinkets, and Ranged.

Shandara's Spreadsheet gives much more believeable numbers. Painfully so.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Emancro on Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:26 pm

Ballisto are you using 2.3.3 or 2.3.2 because the Pet DPS numbers I'm getting(in 2.3.3) Is more realistic

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Ballisto on Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:55 am

I created this profile using 2.3.2, which was the latest version at that time. When 2.3.3 got released, I just loaded the very same profile into there, and nothing changed.
Maybe I should re-create the profile from scratch? I could also send it to you by e-mail, if you wish.

Edit: Just did another profile from scratch in 2.3.3. The 9.2k damage turned into a mere 5.99k, yet the Pet DPS Rating bug persists. Rawr has yet to earn my trust.

Trying http://femaledwarf.com now.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Ballisto on Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:47 pm

Well, two thumbs up to Femaledwarf. It is *very* well designed, so extremely easy to use.

The results it gives also look much more truthlike than anything I got out of Rawr.Hunter at the moment. Of course, it's still a model and the real game will put everything into place. That model doesn't look like a Christmas gift for a BM hunter, however. Wink Unlike Rawr.

I will still be trying out each and every spec at 80.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Pwaza on Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:52 pm

Rawr 2.3.4 was just released and the hunter notes mention:

- Rawr.Hunter: Improved the UI of the options screen. Fix for DK rune enchants showing up. Fix for armor penetration debuffs applying to pets. Fix for happiness being applied twice to pets.

You might want to recheck if this is more realistic now.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

Post  Wakarrie on Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:22 am

Any suggestions for "best" race on alliance side, the U.S. version rolled alliance, my hunter I had mothballed was a Draenei, he was BM and since pet is a big part of BM dps the extra HoT would serve me well, as with the 1% hit aura.

As to Gevlon, if only guns are available @ 80, maybe dwarf is the best, but no other dwarf racials lend themselves to hunter dps.

I don't mind switching to be the best possible combo for our raids.

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Re: Hunter -> Troll or Orc?

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