North America Undergeared Rules

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North America Undergeared Rules

Post  gnomeofzurich on Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:04 am

General Philosophy:

The Undergeared project is an attempt by serious, self-starting, intelligent wow players to beat content in ways we are not supposed to be able to beat it. As such, we will not be running like a typical guild. In general, I am quite happy with Gevlon's rules, but I also have my own spin which I will detail here.

Gevlon's Rules:

Read them. All of them. Anything he's posted publicly about this project on the forums or in his blog applies here too, unless specifically altered by the US leadership.

Money Handling:

You are responsible for getting yourself ready to blue raid at 80. I am an investor, I am not your mommy or your daddy, your benefactor or your mentor. I have made specific promises about what I will provide at various points in this endeavor. It's not enough to make this happen. Gevlon's aren't enough to make this happen, and I'm doing less than he is. You are expected to do the rest.

You got into the project because you or someone you know is familiar with the blog of a rabid randian auction house baron who has no patience for morons or slackers. Scratch the randian stuff and you get pretty close to where I stand. Blizzard already provides plenty of welfare, so our political differences are irrelevant in-game. If I or any officer sees a guild member mooching, leeching, begging, spamming, or otherwise behaving like an entitled jackass or any other brand of M&S anywhere, they will be kicked. Period.

Take two of mining/enchanting/herbalism/skinning to start and switch to raiding professions at 80, or when you have enough gold already. Earning 5-10kg while leveling is expected and should not require significant extra time commitment to farming or goldmaking.

Guild Bank:

The first tab is for trading of items of low general value that might be useful to somebody while leveling. The second tab will be stocked with consumables and accessible to members of rank "Raider" and above only. There is no need for a third tab. Do not put expensive non-consumable items in the guild bank unless you are interested in helping out the bankroller. I will take them out and sell them.

Guild Chat:

Gevlon's rules will apply. If you want to chit chat with people, use whispers, or make a party/raid with them. Keep the guild channel open for quick wow questions, and in game needs (crafting, groups, etc.).

Raid Chat:

Raid chat for guild raids will follow guild chat rules, except that we will also ban any talk not relevant to the current raid. [bi]When the raid leader or a team leader is talking in raid chat, CLEAR CHAT and PAY ATTENTION[/bi].

Party Chat:

No special rules. Be aware that obvious examples of verboten behavior (abuse, leeching, rampant stupidity, racism) in party chat will still get you demoted or kicked same as it will in guild chat if it comes to the attention of an officer.


We are not collecting purples for the next raid, we are going to run the next raid in the same blues we are wearing for this raid. There will be no loot council. There will be no DKP. We are all goblins (and gnomes) here. Gold is our DKP. There will be no loot master. need/greed is fine. High value BoE items (orbs/primordial saronite) will be pure random roll -- all need (note: this is not standard etiquette on my server, pugs will expect all greed and then QQing when someone ninjas: Doh!). Don't like the result, buy them from the winner. Don't have enough gold to make a deal? Too bad, so sad.

For BoP items, need it if it is a part of a potential raiding set for you (any spec) and you want it, greed or de otherwise. Feel free to buy or trade for something from the winner if you don't like the roll. Feel free to cry to me or others about the result if you would like to be demoted or kicked. Groups outside the official guild raid runs can do whatever they want. I'm not going to police it. If you want me to play Solomon, I will DE your firstborn.


When we raid, we will never immediately repeat attempt after a wipe. There will *always* be a post-mortem after a bad fight to discuss what should have happened differently, even if it only takes 30 seconds to identify an obvious fatal error. We go again when the raid leader confirms the necessary change and says to go. An attempt should be taken only with a decent chance of success, or a goal of learning something specific. If neither is true, we think and talk until we come up a plan for one or the other.


If you have made a mistake, you will be expected to own up to it immediately. There is no shame in making mistakes. Mistakes will not keep us from our goal. A failure to identify and learn from our mistakes will most certainly keep us from any goal worth achieving, so this is the standard.

Do not be afraid of or try to hide your mistakes, be merciless at identifying them and be willing to state them publicly so that people who did not see them will not waste their time solving a problem that would not exist if you had performed. Do not be angry at people correctly pointing out your mistakes -- they are helping you and the guild become stronger.

Repeating the same mistakes will get you pulled from the raid. I strongly recommend pulling yourself before that happens. If you pull yourself to fix the problem, you will be given another assignment if possible or invited back when you can be. The mark of a professional is knowing the standards, and being as hard on yourself as you would be on others. If a team leader or raid leader has to pull you, that is 10 times as bad as if you pull yourself. Don't let it happen.

Read this whole section again, it's crucial, and goes double for team/raid leaders, officers and the ruling council. The whole point of this project is that you do not have to be an elite player to join. If you are intelligent, with the right attitude and work ethic, and follow these rules, you should be a very good player by the time we are done.

DPS Meters:

Here's an example of a completely useless thing to say in party/raid or guild chat no better than "lol" or "Ding Level 10!!!": "Player X only did N dps".

NOT HELPFUL. Every player is expected to be running recount or something with equivalent functionality. We all know how much dps player X just did, including all the officers, we don't need it in raid chat or wherever. This goes for posting dps meters in general. If you doesn't have a dps meter for some reason -- first: download one and don't be without it next time -- second: ask *one* person to whisper it to you. Don't depend on the meter. The best dps is not always the dps with the highest number. Some fights favor certain styles or classes. Some people should be doing CC or some other duty. When we are in training, since cookie cutter rotations are not optimal for blues, you will be expected to experiment. Some of your experiments will not work. Mistakes are not failure, they are information.

Don't just run a dps meter to know your number. Use it to see how much damage you are doing with different abilities. Does this match what you expected when you built your rotation? Why or why not? Use the information to build better rotations and to figure out where you are making mistakes. Officers look at this for everyone whose class+spec you are competent at. Look at dispels. Look at friendly fire. Look at damage taken. All this is just as important as damage done.

How to handle grievances:

I will have *zero* patience for abuse. No berating. No namecalling. Pointing out a mistake is not abuse. Suggestions are not abuse. L2PNoob or the more eloquent equivalent is.

"Player X did Y wrong.": helpful, if you are right.

"Player X, what if you do Z?": helpful, if you are right.

"Player X sucks blah blah blah": gonna get something between a warning and a gkick.

If you think an officer should have kicked player X, say it to an officer, not in public. In general, if you have a problem with a player's overall performance (as opposed to a short specific constructive observation or suggestion about *behavior*), take it up with that player in private, or take it up with someone that has the authority to demote/kick that player in private. If you have a problem with me, take it up me, or with Gevlon. If he tells me I'm not following his idea closely enough, I'll conform or step down. Anybody else will have to convince me I'm wrong.

Everyone in this guild is your professional colleague until they demonstrate otherwise. If the officers are doing their job, demonstrations otherwise will result in kicks. Treat everyone with respect. Don't be the one to demonstrate that *YOU* do not belong by slacking, hounding people or otherwise being a moron or asshole. If you are not an officer it is not your decision whether someone stays. Feel free to influence that decision by making your case to an officer. Do not say it in guild chat, and do not post it on the forum, say it to an officer. If you make good cases, we'll probably make you an officer, we need people on the watch to nip problems in the bud quickly.

Racism, Sexism, homophobia, xenophobia and other white fratboy crack "isms":

Just don't do it. Don't try to find the line. If you are trying to find the line or if you think whatever stereotype or rape imagery you have come up with is ok because it's funny or common, you are already way, way over my line. If I challenge you -- don't try me, just stop. I don't care whether you agree with me on this. I probably won't demote/kick you for saying something once unless it is obvious. I will kick you with no appeal and no remorse for not shutting up ASAP when I call you on something, whether you "get" it or think it was "innocent" or not. I don't care if it's trade, party, whispers or the forums. I will not participate in this event there is the tiniest whiff of default hostility to women, gays or non-Whitey-McWhiteypants EuroAmericans. So as long as I am in charge, I will enforce this rule with an iron fist. Rampant stupid flirting will be treated like any other stupid annoying behavior. I'm married, I get it all the time. I don't need pixel-fluffers.

Amendment of Rules

Rules are subject to change or addition by the Ruling Council. If you have a rule change proposal, post it in this thread. I'll make editing changes without putting it before the council.

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Re: North America Undergeared Rules

Post  Newtron on Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:49 am

Read and signed


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Re: North America Undergeared Rules

Post  Kerouac on Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:40 am

Newtron wrote:Read and signed

I appreciate the sentiment, but don't bother with any further 'read and signed' replies.

I don't care if a guildie has read it or not. They should read all of Gevlon's posts and these rules, but in the end, their in-game performance / conduct is completely their own responsibility.

Having a 'tag' on this thread won't save you from yourself if you are an asshat, moron, or slacker.

Last edited by Kerouac on Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
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Re: North America Undergeared Rules

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